In The Price of Nice, Amira Barger—author and Executive Vice President at Edelman—reveals why courage, not compliance, defines true leadership. Through stories that blend honesty with heart, she challenges the cultural myth that being agreeable equals being kind, showing how “nice” can come at the expense of truth and progress. In this powerful conversation with Kate Byrne, Amira explores the three languages of communication, the myth of harmony in teams, and what it really means to practice nerve as a daily act of integrity.
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The Price Of Nice: Edelman EVP And Author, Amira Barger On Courage, Communication, And Redefining Strength
How many of you grew up being told, “Say something nice. Be nice,” and oftentimes, you found yourself feeling tiny, small, and quiet because there wasn’t always something nice to be said or done. In a world that rewards agreeability and punishes dissent, nice has become a currency. As our guest, Amira Barger, reminds us, it’s one that often costs us our truth.
As Executive Vice President at Edelman and the author of The Price of Nice, Amira has built a career helping organizations and the leaders and the people within them to find the nerve, which is the opposite of nice, to speak with conviction. In this conversation, we explore how beliefs are formed. Did you choose them, or were you told to believe them? We also explore the three languages of communication, which are practical, social, and emotional, and why the world needs leaders who are less pleasing and more present.
Together, we impact the whole myth of harmony, the danger of unexamined and overblown empathy, and how to cultivate mindsets, tool sets, and, frankly, the skillsets that make courage a daily practice. As Amira says, nice isn’t the same as kind, and the future will belong to those with the nerve to know the difference. Tune in and be sure to stay to the end because there are so many takeaways. Let me know what you think.
This is such a special day because I get to celebrate someone who I’ve watched come up and out and own her all thatness. It gives me great pleasure to introduce all of you to Amira Barger. She’s Edelman’s Executive Vice President of Communications, Change Management, and DEI Advisory. The most exciting thing is that she’s the author of an important book, The Price of Nice. Amira, welcome. I am so excited.
Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here, too, and be in conversation. It’s been far too long. We live on opposite coasts.
The Genesis Of “The Price of Nice”: Amira Barger’s Personal Journey
I know, but the magic of technology.
Bringing us together.
Patience is a lifelong lesson for me. I’m trying, but when it comes to getting the opportunity to talk to you about your book, I’m going to dive right in.
Let’s do it.
Let’s go. The true cost of nice. Your book, The Price of Nice, takes such a deeply ingrained cultural norm that being agreeable and accommodating is always a virtue. We’re taught that. What made you realize that nice may be holding people back?
I go way back to the earliest memory of childhood, where I thought about nice as a problem. It came up for me once my daughter was born. She’s twelve and a half now. At that point in time, and this happens once you’re responsible for a little human in the world, you start taking stock in a new and different way. I started unpacking and thinking to myself, “What do I actually believe? Do I believe these things? Everything from norms, faith, the world of work, to what it means to be a woman, do I believe these things because I chose to or because I was told to?” I started that process years ago, and through that process, I went back to little nine-year-old Amira.
Do I believe these things because I chose to or because I was told to? Share on XI’m going to tell you a story. I often tell people I’m an ‘80s baby, but the ‘90s raised me. It was before we had cell phones. Believe it or not, I lived in a time when we did not have those. We had pagers at most, where we could page, code, or text each other. Every summer, we had these little friends who would come back with what we called, back then, vacation hair. You didn’t have a phone to text and we didn’t have social media posts, but if you wanted someone to know you had been somewhere fabulous, you would get vacation hair, and you’d come back.
My sisters and I had these two little best friends, Kat and Tiff. They were blonde-haired, hazel-eyed twins. Every year, they’d come back with vacation hair, these braided cornrows with the beads and their bright, sunburned scalps. They would always ask my mom after a couple of weeks when they’d turn into these fizzy haystacks of hair, “Can you re-braid our hair? Can you make it look like theirs?” pointing at my sisters and me. My mom would do it. She’d sit there, patiently part their hair, and try to get some semblance of vacation hair back for them.
One day, when I was nine, for whatever reason, I was standing there in the doorway, as would happen every year, watching. I remember these dramatics, A Broadway show is how I describe it, of the comments of, “Ouch. It hurts so much. It’s so tight. Is my hair falling out? Does it hurt this much when your hair gets braided? Does your hair fall out? Is my head bleeding?” There were all of these things. Little nine-year-old Amira snapped. I said, “It’s because your hair isn’t made for those kinds of braids.” I felt like the oxygen had left the room. My mom had her eyes bulging. She paused and was like, “Amira, that’s not nice.”
That was the first moment I could think back to. She didn’t mean for it to be the lesson that I took away from it that day, but what I did take was that even if you say something that is true. At that moment, that’s what I thought I was doing. I was telling the truth. Even if you say something that’s true, if it makes someone else uncomfortable, you are the problem. Little Amira, even after that first little tirade, also said, “Your hair isn’t made for that. If you want your head to stop hurting, don’t get the braids.”
One of the lessons that I took is something I learned. Charles Duhigg has a book called Supercommunicators. In it, he talks about, as people, we’re usually in 1 of 3 conversations. The first is usually a practical conversation, so solution-oriented. The second is an emotional conversation, where you’re seeking empathy and connection. The third is a social conversation, where you’re seeking community and friendship.
I’m a September Virgo. That’s important for people to know. I’m almost always in a practical conversation. I want to get to the brass tacks of the Excel sheet task list, who’s on first, and who’s assigned what. I’m like, “Let’s get the thing done.” For little nine-year-old Amira, to me, the practical answer was, “Your head hurts. Your hair is too thin for those kinds of braids. You have a different hair texture than mine. Don’t get the braids.” I wasn’t trying to be mean. I was like, “This is the most obvious answer.”
The twins that day, as I would learn many decades later, were in an emotional conversation. They wanted empathy, so I’m going to say, “I’m so sorry that your head hurts. I’m sorry that you feel that way. Here’s some ice for your sunburned scalp,” or what have you. I learned some tools along the way, and that is the very first moment I can think back to a feeling like, “That’s not nice.” It might not have come across nice, but I was trying to create change and progress and give them a solution and answer. Somehow, I’m the problem. That doesn’t make sense.
Beyond Niceness: Embracing Kindness And Action In Leadership
With my daughters, I have always said, “Tell the truth, but be prepared because your truth, people may not want to hear. It doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t hear it or don’t need to hear it, but be prepared.” Along those lines, you make a clear distinction between being nice and being kind. It’s the old niceness versus kindness. How do you see the real difference, and why does that matter for leaders and teams?
I’m a very visual learner. I speak a lot in stories, metaphors, and analogies. In 2015, someone tweeted the difference between nice and kind, and it’s still my favorite explanation to this day. They said nice and kind is the difference between a Californian and a New Yorker. As a native Californian, I agree and co-sign this message.
They said, “Nice would be a Californian. You’re outside, you’re cold, and you don’t have a jacket. You say, “I’m so cold, I’m freezing.” A Californian would walk by, hear that, and say, “I’m so sorry that you’re cold. That’s sad,” and keep moving. A New Yorker, on the other hand, would look at you and say, “You are stupid. You came outside without a coat on. What the heck is wrong with you?” They take their coat off, hand you their coat, and fix your problem.
That’s the difference, to me, between nice and kind. Nice might come across as empathy and some nice, flowery words. With kind, you took action. Is a New Yorker a little gruff and rough around the edges? Sure, but I love my New Yorkers. They took action. They solved the problem. I have a coat, and I’m no longer cold. That, to me, is the difference between nice and kind. Nice is action-oriented. That’s what we need more of.
Cultivating Nerve: How To Be Authentic Without Being Steamrolled
It gets it done. I love that. I can’t wait to tell my husband from New Jersey slash New York that. We’ll get a check on that one. My bonus kids, too. We are in the days of collaborative cultures, where we’re all collaborating. To your point, we’re probably much more involved in emotional conversations than we normally are.
I find this is true, too, of people who are relatively new in management, but then also, older generation folks who are trying to relate to the younger generation. There’s this tightrope. People walk between wanting to be liked and being respected. How do we coach people to find that balance to stay authentic without getting completely plowed and steamrolled?
I talk a lot about chosen self and how I try to show up as my most chosen self in any situation, as opposed to my authentic self. Why I make that distinction is as a woman, and then add another layer as a disabled woman, and then add that next layer of being a Black woman, I don’t know that there is any space where I can truly be my authentic self in the world of work.
I talk about the chosen self. That’s a lot of what this book is about. I tell people that the antithesis of nice is not mean. I didn’t write a whole book asking people to be mean. Go figure. The antithesis of nice is nerve. I talk about practicing nerve at a 1 on the dial and sometimes a 10 on the dial. It’s context-specific. I know that with you right here, I could practice nerve at a 10 or 20 because we have a relationship, and we both show up in the world in a very specific way. In other rooms and spaces, it might be a one on the dial.
To me, that’s not about likability. It’s not about giving people permission to cross your boundaries or be disrespectful. It’s, in some ways, a survival mechanism. I understand the context of where I’m at and what people are and are not ready to receive. Some people are not ready to receive nerve at anything other than a one on the dial. I’m not ready for the consequences of practicing it at a 10 on the dial for those who are only ready for a 1 on the dial.
To me, the calibration that we have to each calculate for ourselves in every scenario in every room we’re in is, “Who am I in relationship with? What is the context of the conversation, the room, and the potential consequences?” That is a calculation that we each make based on all of those layers of who we are and what privileges we do or don’t have.
I want people to remember that in reading this book and the tool I’m trying to give, none of this is meant to be an indictment of wanting to be liked. We all want that as humans. That’s natural. What I ask people to do is to pause and ask themselves, “Who does this serve?” Whatever the this is. It could be this process, this question, this room, or this relationship. Does it still serve enough of us or any of us? That’s what I want people to take away. It’s okay to want to be liked, but more than that, what I want is for us to have progress. I want us to walk into rooms that are more inclusive for us and have a world that is built for more of us, not just one small subset of us.
Professionalism Redefined: Challenging Bias And Fostering Respect
That’s a nice segue into something that I’ve been thinking about. I know you have said that traditional ideas of professionalism often mask bias. How can you begin to redefine that whole professionalism so that it does exactly what you said, which is align inequity, respect, and not just plain old conformity?
One of the simplest answers is that we need different people in leadership.
That’s true.
The traditional power-holding groups, White men is what that means, and of a certain generation. As a good leader, sometimes, the best thing you can do is know when it’s time to hang your head up and pass it on to someone else to lead and do the job of sponsorship, mentorship, and leadership. You say, “It’s my time to step aside. The world we’re in needs a new kind of leader, a new kind of outlook, and a new kind of mindset.” That’s the most straightforward thing. We’re coming into that. We’ve got more Gen X and Millennials moving into leadership roles. We have more women of every generation moving into leadership roles. Those people have been socialized and brought up in different ways.
As a good leader, sometimes the best thing you can do is know when it's time to hang your head up and pass it on to someone else to lead. Share on XI think about even Gen Z, who comes from one of the most diverse sets of people ever and has the most diverse set of political beliefs, religion, schooling, and social context. The way that they are going to lead eventually, when they are in these seats of power, is going to look so different from how someone of a different generation might lead. I’m excited for that. I’m excited for some seats to turn over into some new hands that have different ideas about how the world needs to look.
Think about even the conversations we’re still having about returning to the office. There is a great conversation to be had about, as humans, we need connection. Agreed, but also, for people who are in the workforce, what does inclusion look like for them? We have 600,000 women as of October 23rd, 2025, in the year of our Lord, who have left the workforce. 300,000 of those are Black women.
I think about those women. I think about how women still hold the majority of household tasks and child rearing. It might not be super equitable or inclusive for them to have to be in an office five days a week when they still have to pick a kid up at 3:20, which is a weird time to get out. Who can get back from a big city to home to pick up the kid by that time and still be productive? We might need more hybrid structures or more remote structures.
Those are the conversations I want us to have. Who do these norms, these rules, these structures, these policies, and these workplaces that were created with men in mind serve? Many of these norms and structures we’ve perpetuated and adopted from eons ago, when women weren’t even in the workforce. We weren’t even allowed to have credit cards of our own until the ‘80s. What is that?
Who does it serve? Does it still serve enough of us is one of the big questions we have to ask. From there, we have to take action on, “This doesn’t serve enough of us. Let’s reimagine it together. Let’s be more flexible about the structures, the policies, and the norms we agree to collectively that create more room for more of us to participate.” I don’t like that 600,000 women are suddenly out of the workforce.
The context of everything. We have all these tools that can enable us to do this.
Also, to do better. Many leaders and coaches will talk to you about, “You need mindsets, tool sets, and skillsets.” What my book is trying to do is help with the mindset piece. How do we get the mindset shift to happen? As you said, we have the tools. Many of us have the skills. Many of us have gone to eons of trainings and workshops and been imparted the skills and the tools. A lot of this comes down to the mindset shift that has to happen.
That’s why I talk about asking those bigger questions of, “Who does this serve? Does it still serve all of us, enough of us, the majority of us?” Shift your mindset to reimagine a world that is inclusive of more of us in a world where we’re not so hell-bent on being liked. Instead, we have the courage to be disliked and to practice nerve.
To be real. The other thing is that when we are coming up with these new solutions, it’s not like flipping a switch. It’s about time. That’s been the big issue. We’ve already seen what happens when you come in and go.
That’s right.
We are going to have to baby step it, but even that baby step, I guarantee, will feel tectonic to some. It’s new. We probably will get parts wrong. We haven’t done it. Can we also give each other, frankly, a little bit of grace? Maybe, finally, at last, people will give feedback that is helpful.
Real feedback.
We’re like, “It’s good. That’s fine,” but no.
We soften it so much. We soften it to the point that it’s meaningless feedback. I’m like, “That’s not what we need. We need something different.”
The Double-Edged Sword Of Empathy: Action Over Awareness
We get mad when it doesn’t work. That’s one of the things. As we’ve seen, lame feedback backfires. Empathy can, too. I’m an empathic person sponge myself. However, I also know it can lead to your own exhaustion, burnout, and over-functioning. We’re like, “You’re feeling some pain.” They’re like, “I’ve got it,” and we’re like, “I can do it.”
I also think it frankly masks letting go of the control wheel. I learned this through my daughter’s wedding so much. It was fabulous. That was one of the things I realized. My whole thing of, “Here. I can help and do this,” was, “I want to do this because I know how to do it and better.” How do we practice empathy without losing our boundaries?
There are a lot of problems with empathy. One of my girlfriends, Dr. Janice Gassam Asare, Ari, writes for Forbes and is a consultant. She talks a lot about the dangers of empathy. I agree. It’s something that has been touted, taught, and lauded over and over again. Empathy can unintentionally center the empathizer. When someone says, “I can’t imagine what that’s like,” the focus shifts from the person harmed to the observer’s comfort, the empathizer. When empathy becomes about me trying to understand you instead of about me changing what harms you, that’s where it’s a problem.
This idea of putting yourself in someone else’s shoes is not always possible or a reality. Many of us have so many different layers and dimensions of our identity. I can never put myself in someone else’s shoes. There might be similarities, similar contexts, and similar upbringings, but only you are you. True empathy, to me, is about what action can I take to change what harms you? It goes beyond the awareness of, “I’ve listened. I’m aware of what’s harming you.” You need to do something.
To me, empathy is dangerous because too many people stop at empathy. They don’t then go into action. That’s where it’s harmful. We’re talking about micro actions, I call them. What’s one micro action you can take? It could even be the simple act of asking someone as you’re having a conversation. I try to do this in my own relationships of, “Are you looking for me to listen and observe, or do you want me to help you create a solution?”
Even that alone, so that I can get to the point of like, “If you want me to help you take action here, I’m willing to do that.” I am opening that door to that person to know that I’m not just going to empathize and listen. I’d be like, “If you want me to pull up or if I need to be a ride or die right now, whose car are we taking? Let’s go.” That can be a micro action that you can take to frame the conversation that way of, “I’m willing to take action so that you know. I’m also willing to sit here, listen, and be with you in a relationship.” That’s also an option. Empathy doesn’t take it far enough for me in too many cases. That’s where it becomes dangerous.
The piece that I love about that, too, is that it also demonstrates that you’re so courageously listening to that person. That means we’re both in it.
That’s right. We both have skin in this game.
The Myth Of Workplace Harmony: Why Constructive Disagreement Is Key
You can’t just victim blah blah blah. To your point, the dial is going to turn. It won’t be all the way, but it’ll be a shift. That baby step shift will probably start having a resounding, residual waterfall impact. Another myth that I know you talk about is this whole myth of harmony and the price of silence. Many teams laud themselves as, “We’ve got such harmony.” It’s not necessarily harmony versus honesty. What does it take to build a culture where you can have constructive disagreement, and it’s not only safe, but encourages and maybe celebrates their work?
Expected. That’s what we want more of. Let me tell you a story. Every workplace has an insensitive term, but it’s the term that we use in business. It’s sacred cows. Another term could be darling systems. Those are rules, leaders, and habits that you don’t challenge and don’t change. You’re not supposed to touch them. We had one in a former workplace of mine. It was our CEO. I’ll call him Marty. He was the sacred cow or the darling system.
Marty was beloved in the community. He was considered a visionary by many people, but inside our organization, he dismissed feedback, bristled at critique, and only surrounded himself with yes people who would bow to his every whim. Where we failed was that our executive team, but also our board of directors, who had the most power and the actual power, we all tiptoed around Marty’s ego. We would even edit meeting notes so that they wouldn’t sound too critical. We did ridiculous stuff. It was next-level ridiculous. We would joke about everything in private, but we never addressed him directly or directly enough. We told ourselves, “Pick your battle. Stay in your lane. Let’s keep things nice and comfortable.”
We had this big once-in-a-lifetime meeting coming up. We all get on a plane and fly to Capitol Hill. We are to sit down with Congresswoman Jackie Speier, who’s our rep here in San Francisco. This was one of those make-or-break opportunities. We are there to try to secure $9 million for the work that we were doing. We’re in the room, and Marty finishes our collective pitch and decides to drop his favorite catchphrase. This man was known for this. It was a Marty-ism. He would sneak it into speeches at our gala, every stage, and every meeting. This man loved this phrase.
He finishes our pitch and says, “Jackie, I don’t know if I’m sipping my own Kool-Aid.” I swear to God, the oxygen leaves the room. My eyes are bulging out of my head. The congresswoman’s staff is frozen and dumbfounded, like, “Did you do that?” I talk about him as someone who had all the self-awareness of a brick. He didn’t realize the wave of discomfort he had unleashed. Congresswoman Speier looks at him very calmly and says, “You shouldn’t say that to me. By the way, it was Flavor Aid, not Kool-Aid,” very cheekily. She gets this a lot, I’m sure.
For anyone that’s unfamiliar, that phrase references the Jonestown Massacre in the ‘70s. Congresswoman Speier was an aide to her congress person in those days. They were there doing a visit, trying to help people, and she was harmed. She was shot multiple times that day. That day also, it was a mass unaliving. They drank a cyanide-laced beverage. It was Flavor Aid, not Kool-Aid. She was a survivor of that tragedy. For Marty, she was the one person he should not say that phrase to. That’s why we were all so dumbfounded. We had our jaws on the floor, the congresswoman’s staff, me, and my colleagues. I was like, “Get me out of here. I cannot believe I’m living this moment.”
I’m throwing up a little bit in my mouth.
I’m like, “This has to be like a Punk’d moment,” or, “Am I on SNL? Get me out of here, please.” I’m thinking in that moment, “Meeting over. We’re done.” The truth was that it wasn’t just his mistake. Reflecting back, I can admit that. It was ours. We hadn’t corrected him or any of his behavior at all for years. We didn’t correct his language in the prep. We didn’t coach him to drop that phrase because this is the one person he shouldn’t say it to.
We had prioritized our comfort collectively over keeping him accountable. That’s what happens when nice becomes a part of our culture and workplaces. It is when safety means silence, when harmony is valued over honesty, and everyone is trying to perform that fake harmony, which isn’t serving any of us. What we need is more nerve and more honesty, not the harmony and the fake niceties that don’t change anything for anyone.
What we need is more nerve and honesty, not the fake harmony that changes nothing for anyone. Share on XNavigating The Future: Leadership And Connection In The Age Of AI
That also reflects the optics. It’s reputation versus reality. That’s going to get nailed so fast. With that, I want to take a look and talk a little bit about what we tapped earlier, this fast-moving workplace. It’s shifting. We got your hybrid models. We’ve got so many generations. We have 5 or 6 in any given place. We have AI reshaping communication. Was that a person, or was it a bot?
What do you think will most define the next era of leadership and connection? I talk a little bit about this at times with corporates about, “You’re freaking out because you have to lead multiple generations. Now, some will be people, and some will be bots. What’s that going to look like?” What do you think some of those things will be that will impact and define the next era?
I do think a lot of it is going to be this AI bit. I know it’s something that we keep kicking around. In every conversation, every panel, and every conference I’m at, it’s always a topic of conversation. It has to be because a lot of it has already gotten so far away from us. I was looking at TikTok and went down a rabbit hole because there are these TikTok profiles that are entirely AI. There are new musical artists who are signed by a record label that are not real people. How do you even sign a fake person to a record label? These fake artists are producing music. Who’s getting the check? It’s not a real person.
There are all of these videos, memes, and things that we see that are so swiftly being used to say that some people said or did something, and it’s not real. We have to come to a place where we get back to general media literacy and knowing and understanding how to suss out what’s real and what’s not. We have to get back to reading real books again. I’m like, “Pick up a physical book, please, and read. There’s truth in these. Remember those.”
I do think AI is one of the big ones because it’s not only shifting the tool sets that we use and the skillsets that we have, but that third piece I talked about earlier, the mindsets. It’s shifting the mindset piece of we don’t even know what’s real anymore. We don’t even know who is real anymore. We don’t even know who said that or if they said that. It is shifting how we choose to interact with information and with each other. We are not going to come out of it unscathed.
AI is shifting how we interact with information and each other, and we're not going to come out of it unscathed. Share on XRedefining Strength: Trusting Your Instincts And Saying No
You, too, have to commit to asking questions and thinking critically. I’m a broken record about critical thinking. I know everybody is.
As you should be.
I want you to talk a little bit about how we redefine strength. I know you’ve written about the quiet courage it takes to lead authentically. What does strength even look like for you? How has that definition evolved over your career?
To me, it is being honest about what I need and stepping away from the expectations and the mold I was told I had to contort myself into. An example would be, a handful of years ago, one of my first big corporate agencies I worked with, Ogilvy, wanted me for this role. I had this very unique skillset that they needed. We got into the place where they made me an offer, but there was something stirring in my spirit, something otherworldly, that it didn’t feel right. It didn’t feel like the right time. It didn’t feel like the right role, although every other piece of data in this world and in the world of work said, “You’d be stupid not to take that job.”
Other people in my ear and in my world were like, “With the salary they’re offering, the cache of this organization, the kind of work going to get to do, and the kind of impact you’re going to have, why would you say no to this? Especially considering where you’re at today in a job that you hate and a job that’s going nowhere, you’ve got to say yes to this.” That would’ve been the “right” answer, but I felt something that I couldn’t explain that said, “It’s not the right time,” so I said no.
Two of the executives, because we had been courting each other for at least six months, were dumbfounded. They were like, “What do you mean?” They told the president of this office and the West Coast lead. This gentleman, whom I had not met yet, was like, “I have to meet this woman, because who says no to us?” He could have taken a different tactic. They could have been upset that they had spent time courting me and I said no, but instead, in a true leader form, he was like, “This is kind of the person that should work for us because what do you mean she said no?”
He asked to sit down with me. A couple of weeks later, we had several hours of lunch and conversation. He was like, “I had to meet the woman who said no to us, because what do you mean no? Who are you? Where do you get the gall to say no? I want to know you.” I love that about him. That says a lot about who he is as a person.
That’s part of what we need to do. At that moment, I couldn’t explain it. It pushed up against everything that everyone said was the right answer. The mold and the desire I should have with how we’re socialized and how the world is constructed around us is that I should have said yes to this opportunity, but I had to, in that moment, live my truth. There was something. I knew it wasn’t right, and it was time to say no, not yes.
A couple of years later, I did end up working for them. Eventually, it did come to be, and that was the right time. That’s more of what we need. We need to trust the instinct that you feel. All of these molds that we’ve been told we have to fit into, who does that serve? Does it still serve me? Does it still serve us? Does it still serve a greater purpose for people and the planet? Be willing to ask those questions and to answer honestly. Sometimes, that answer is no. Sometimes, it’s heck no.
Staying Centered: Practices For Inner Peace And Resilience
This is something you learn when you do sales. I was in a similar situation with Business Week. It took them three times, and then I said yes. I was stunned they hired me at the time. I was five months pregnant. This is back when that was not a thing. Kudos to them, and to you, Lou Mohn. Shout out. Also, Joanne Bradford for prepping him for that. That was a big thing. You can imagine the commitment I had with them was significant because we’ve gone through it so many different times. What practices and rituals do you use that help you stay centered?
I am in nature a lot. My family and I love the outdoors and hiking. It’s a thing that we do. In my bio, I always included that it’s 1 of our goals to visit all 417 of the US National Parks and Museums. We have our little passport cancellation book, where you get a stamp every time you go. We’re chipping away, and we’re always trying to find a fun hike. The grounding of being outside, breathing the oxygen, taking your shoes off, grounding in the earth, and touching grass is one thing that I do for certain.
The ritual of coffee or tea in the morning is something that I hold sacrosanct. I do it every day. A hot cup of coffee or tea and a moment with self to reflect and start your day in peace and in calm is a ritual that I do as often as I can. I grew up on an island. I’m in California, but we don’t swim on our beaches, unless you’re in San Diego. If I were near a warm beach like Hawaii or another island, I would be in the water every single day. I miss that deeply. Those are some of the things that I do.
The Price of Nice: Why Comfort Keeps Us Stuck and 4 Actions for Real Change
I worked with a spiritual teacher. She was telling me that whenever you need to gain your self-confidence or when you’ve forgotten who you are, go walk amongst the trees because the trees will witness you. It will come back, and you’ll remember. It’s a terrific reset.
It’s great practice.
In closing, knowing what you know now about all sorts of stuff about influence, leadership, and the limits of nice, what advice would you give your younger self?
It’s the advice I give my daughter every morning. She’s twelve and a half. We didn’t get too much into my background, but people who know me know that I grew up in a very sheltered way. My parents were missionaries, so I grew up as an Evangelical Christian. We were conservative. My parents were Republicans. I grew up in a world that was small, and that was intentional. I was taught to fear the outside world and to fear people who didn’t think and believe as we do. My life now is eons from what I grew up in. It’s the exact opposite, in fact, of everything that I grew up knowing.
Since I was taught to fear so much, what I tell my twelve-and-a-half-year-old every day as she leaves for school is I love her, and then I tell her, “Don’t do anything I wouldn’t do, which isn’t much.” That is my way of saying to her, “You have permission to be brave, try, and fail forward. Know that your community and the people who love you will be here to catch you, but do not fear the world. Do not fear people. Do not fear ideas. Try things on for size and figure out what you believe and what you think.” Now, there isn’t much that I wouldn’t do, try, or say because I’m making up for lost time. I don’t want her to have those constraints, so I tell her, “Don’t do anything I wouldn’t do,” which isn’t much.
You have permission to be brave, to try, to fail forward. Know that your community and the people who love you will catch you. Do not fear the world. Share on XI love that. I love the notion of making up for lost time because, in our whole generation, so many of us were so focused on, “Is this what you chose, or is this what you were told? Is this what you should do, or is it what you could do?” A little wee bit of wonder in life and in the world. The book?
I finally have physical copies. I can’t wait to get you one. The Price of Nice comes out on October 28th, 2025. It is my invitation to people to practice more nerve. It is my love letter to the challengers, the disruptors, and the people who were told to shrink, stay silent, and not do all the things they wanted to do. Please pick it up.
For those of you in the Virginia area, I’m working on building out a Women’s Advancing Summit. All of you who are tuning in are welcome to come. Amira will hopefully be one of the speakers there.
Sign me up.
To witness, feel her, and experience her in person is a whole other level.
Thank you.
It’s epic. Thank you so much. Congratulations on all of it. Congratulations on taking up space and making more room for others, and passing the baton so you can go get another one, which is fantastic.
Thank you.
Thank you. I have huge love, huge respect, and incredible gratitude for the conversation we had.
Likewise.
Until next time.
Cheers.
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Key Takeaways: Beliefs, Communication, And Authentic Self
What did I tell you? The whole notion of the title of the book, The Price of Nice, how many of us from all ages have been battling that one? The opposite or the antithesis of nice is not mean. Who would write a book on that? Nobody is looking for the world to be any meaner than it is. It’s nerve, to have courage, to be able to step up and speak what you speak from your heart, but also receive the reaction and response with an open heart as well.
With that, I’m going to go ahead and dive into several KB Takeaways from Amira Barger, the author of The Price of Nice and Edelman’s EVP. The first one that caught me right out the gate in that whole notion of beliefs is, when we take a minute to pause and think about it, are these ones that we chose to believe, or are these ones we were told to believe? Think about it. Do a little audit and see. Make sure that those beliefs resonate with you because otherwise, you’re going to be completely misaligned. That will result in poor communication.
What caught me as well is the notion of three types of communication. There’s practical, where people are looking for solutions. There’s emotional, where people are looking to have empathy, be heard, be listened to, and be gotten and understood. The third is social, where you’re looking for connection. Make sure that you are responding in the mode that your communications partner requires and needs at the time. Otherwise, it can offload a conversation and make it all about you and your own needs versus that with whom you’re engaged in conversation.
The notion of a chosen self versus an authentic self. Authentic can be a tricky one when there’s so much context. What is choosing to be your best self as you show up in any given situation? The thought that people are always looking for mindsets, tool sets, and skill sets. Amira’s book is adjusting and going after the mindset crew, but it does provide some practices so that you can up your skillsets as well. Lastly, redefine strength a bit. Trust your instinct and know what’s right for you. There’s so much more. Pick up the book. You’re going to be so glad you do when it comes out on October 28th, 2025. With that, I look forward to continuing more conversations on the next episode.
Important Links
About Amira Barger
Amira K.S. Barger is an award-winning Executive Vice President of Communications and DEI Advisory, recognized for her ability to shape strategy, build trust, and inspire change. She brings more than two decades of experience at the intersection of strategic communications, health equity, and organizational leadership.
Recently named Woman of the Year by Women Health Care Executives, honored as one of 50 Women to Watch for Corporate Boards by 50/50 Women on Boards, and listed among the Top 100 Executives by Involve People, she is a trusted counselor to executives and boards navigating complex reputational and cultural challenges.
Amira serves as a Professor at California State University East Bay, where she teaches marketing, communications, and change management, and as a guest lecturer at UCSF’s Master of Science in Healthcare Administration program. She is also a regular columnist for MSNBC and Fast Company, where her writing explores leadership, equity, and the future of work.
Known for blending data-driven insight with compelling storytelling, Amira has advised Fortune 500 companies, nonprofits, and public institutions alike. Her work is guided by a belief in creating humanity-centered workplaces and a commitment to advancing diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging in every sector she touches.